What kind of car do you drive? Lincoln Nautilus. Favorite dinner meal? Snack?     I'm a beef and potatoes guy but I've switched to beef and vegetables. I'm a bit of a steak snob. For snack, toasted pound cake with ice cream and whipped cream. What is your favorite track to race at? I've always been a Meadowlands guy, although I've been lucky enough to race at some terrific tracks during my tenor. Brandywine and Liberty Bell were terrific places to race; great environment, great racetracks and terrific people. Even in Maryland, when Rosecroft was in its heyday and Laurel. Yonkers is a nice place because of the purses involved. But there is nothing like participating and going to the winner's circle at The Meadowlands. What is your favorite big event in racing? The Meadowlands Pace. If I had a bunch of trotters it would be the Hambletonian. But those two races to me are the most significant events in the game. How often is racing on your mind? Because it is my profession, 24/7. I get up in the morning and go to the bathroom with something about the horses already on my mind. I find it is necessary for me to be more focused than I've ever been. The game has gotten tougher and the attention that I need to give it is more than it used to be. I think I'm a pretty smart guy. I got my way through high school and college without much studying, it came very naturally, and racing has always been like that. Now with the variety of venues we have to go to, the ever-changing draw dates, scratch-times and the advent of the online entries, which I just starting doing last year, I was probably one of the last ones to transition, but there is a lot happening. There are a lot of ways to lose a race and only one way to win a race. For me, I find that I have to dot every "I"  and cross every "T". What is your favorite thing to do outside of racing? At this point in my life, being at home with my wife and watching a good movie. When I was younger, it would be to play a great golf course in beautiful weather. What is your favorite sport to watch? Team? Football – Eagles. While poker is not a sport, it is very conducive to watching on TV. I love to play cards and poker, but I never do it in the casinos and it is very difficult to get a poker game in this day and age. What is one thing about you most fans/bettors don't know? I don't think they know how old I am and I'm happy with that. Is it true that you have a Master’s degree in finance and were the acting Governor of Delaware for one day? That is correct. I was lucky in that my parents insisted that I get an education. I did my undergraduate work at the University of Delaware. I stayed there an extra year because I was fearful that I was going to get drafted out of school, so I joined the ROTC program, which led to an obligation of two years in the Army, one of which I spent in Vietnam. When I was done I went to Temple for two years and got my master's degree. I worked in a brokerage firm for a few years and got a gubernatorial appointment in 1975 or so and handled the division of economic development for governor Sherman Tribbitt. When he was out of town one of his cabinet secretaries would be responsible for running the government. One week he was out of town and my boss was out of town, so I was appointed the governor for a day. What is one word that describes harness racing for you? Frustrating . . . for a variety of reasons. How did you get started in the sport? I had a good friend that I would go to the track with. He had some Standardbred horses. He was on a small farm in Maryland and I was living in Newark, Delaware, and Rising Sun is like the first town when you go south on the Kennedy Memorial on I95. I used to go to his farm to help with the chores so we could play golf or go to Timonium or Pimlico for the afternoon. I wasn't married at the time and had no commitments, so I got to jogging horses and kind of liked it. So when the colder weather came in, he said, 'I'm going to Liberty Bell for the winter. Do you want to come?' I said, that I didn't want to go. Another friend had a couple of Standardbreds that were 2 turning 3 and needed someone to put them back in training. He asked me if I wanted to take them to Liberty Bell and put them in training, so that is what I did. It was just a matter of choice and chance that I had the opportunity in I think the winter of 1978. I enjoyed doing it, so I continued. The game seemed pretty easy. Little did I know how difficult it was. My first experiences were good ones. I was lucky enough to have horses that knew what to do without me helping them too much. I just kind of stayed out of their way. I developed some clients in and around the Delaware Valley. Lots of times the horses ate better than I did. There are a lot of deep prolonged valleys in this game and the occasional highs are that much more appreciated when they come. For me, the game has been good and I've enjoyed what I've done. I wouldn’t have wanted to do anything else. You had a noticeable lull in your number of starters during the early 1990s. What changed? In the fall of 1992 I was in Lexington and a horse I raced at Garden State Park and won while I was out in Lexington, tested positive for two products that I didn't use or even knew what they were at the time. I had a hearing, but it fell under the trainer responsibility umbrella and I got 30 days. I felt like it was stupid because I didn't do it, so I said I’m not going to do this (train) anymore. My companion at the time was involved in the game, so she got her trainer's license and I had a second trainer that had a license. When I realized that I needed to have a presence in the game in order to get more owners, I went back on the program. I was just very frustrated and angry that because of the trainer responsibility rule that I was punished and couldn't do my job. It was very painful not be able to go to the barn for 30 days. You have over 1,370 training wins. What does that number mean to you? It is indicative that I have some longevity. I've been lucky enough to have some wonderful owners who have enabled me to train some terrific horses. For the most part I've had a variety of horses in my barn and I've been doing it a long time. I've been able to survive the game and in the process I've compiled a number of victories and made a lot of starts. It's just a reflection of longevity and having good people to work for and good people to work with. What is the best advice you've ever gotten about harness racing? It is the same advice that I tell people. You get so vested in it that It is very easy to get really high or low in this game. The game is a reflection of life. Nothing stays the same forever. If you are on a great roll - your horses fit the right class, you get the right drivers and the right trip – it is easy to sit back and say that it is an easy game. Then you go 0-for-50 and wonder how to win a race. There are a lot of highs and lows and in order to get through it, you can’t be too emotional. You have to be committed but not emotional. What was your favorite moment in harness racing? Winning the (Little Brown) Jug with Rock N Roll Heaven in 2010. It is really an incredible experience. I didn't think highly of it previously. I had been there a couple of times with horses that couldn't compete. I hated being stabled out in the middle of the fairgrounds with people meandering into my stall, but the new Jug barn makes the experience terrific. People come by and are truly interested in the horse. The crowd's reception to the horse and his accolades was a once in a lifetime experience. That will always stick out for me. Which is the best horse you ever trained? Rock N Roll Heaven, obviously. I had a lot of terrific horses, but none were able to accomplish what he did. He was good from the first day he set foot on the racetrack until he retired. The colt won over $2 million as a 3-year-old without winning the North America Cup or the Meadowlands Pace. He was the best horse in those races, but as the case is very often, the best horse doesn't always win. He was a brilliant horse. For all that he accomplished, Horse of the year, Pacer of the Year, he still doesn't get enough credit. Speaking of Rock N Roll Heaven, he gave you a career year with over $4 million in earnings in 2010. Did that change anything for you? Surprisingly, no. I thought it would buy me seven-to-10 years of goodwill but it didn’t work out. The owners are great people. They treated me well. There was little to no acrimony when we went our separate ways. They made a lot of money and I made a lot of money. I just thought I would always train horses for them. Which horse is/was your favorite? After you've had to euthanize or put one down that you are invested in . . . I had a horse called Big Shift who was by Adios Harry. He raced at Yonkers and Roosevelt back in the Joe Marsh, Buddy Gilmour, Lou Fontaine, Sonny Patterson days. He was a nice hard-earning horse. He could only pace in (1:)59, but that was good enough to win the Open in the winter. He earned $500,000 racing at Roosevelt and Yonkers over a three-year period. He got cast in a stall and snapped a stifle (bone). We had to euthanize him in the stall. That’s heartbreaking. You try not to let your emotions get to where you say 'I love this horse'. I care very much about every horse I have in my care, but he was a favorite. Rock N Roll Heaven was a favorite horse. I had a horse two years ago, a terrific horse called Mangogh who I’m trying to get back to the races. We were just starting to see him when we got hurt. I have a horse named Decision Day. He has the front stall and his head is out every day. When I go by it is like he’s looking at me to see if I'm ok. Horses are special. They all have their personalities. You try not to get too attached, but the ones you have for a long time have special meaning to you. I've had some very good horses for a long time, like Casimir Camotion for four years. Those horses, they become special. How many horses do you have in your barn? 15. It is a good number for me with the help I have. I wish I had the right ones, but I have all nice horses who like to do their jobs. If you could choose any horse in history to train, which horse would it be and why? If I was going to choose a trotter it would be Muscle Hill. I think he was the best horse I've ever seen look through a bridle. He was a natural and overcame his environment. I don’t think Brian (Sears) ever stretched him out once. I don't know how fast he could've gone under the right circumstances. You like to have brilliant horses. I was really happy with Rock N Roll Heaven. I wouldn't trade that horse for any other pacer. He made my life easy. All we did is stay out of his way. How has COVID-19 affected your life and business? I'm fortunate. During the shutdown our horses needed to get exercise every day, so I was able to go to the barn and do the same thing I normally do. The problem was that we had no objective or short-term goal. It was boring in a sense that we didn't have a target. We practiced social distancing. We didn't wear facemasks, but we never got close enough to each other that it mattered. We all committed to making sure we stayed healthy. I have mostly older people working for me. At my age, while I don’t have any underlying conditions, I'm probably in that category where I'm a little more susceptible, so I was very careful. If you had the power to change one thing in the sport, what would it be? The single biggest shortcoming in the sport right now is the influence of performance-enhancing drugs. The only way to change that is to go to a type of system where every horse in every race is stabled on the racetrack and every stall has an eye (camera). In the old days at The Meadowlands and Garden State, when money was no object because people were betting so much, every section had a security guard that was around your barn, so people doing their own vet work, injections, pre-racing, anything to make these horses go a little faster than nature intended, they wouldn't have the opportunity to do that. Everybody would race pretty much with the same preparation of vitamins and supplements. That’s the step I would love to take in racing. Even though those indictments brought to a halt a lot of the people who were skirting the law, that only took the head off the snake. There are still many guys out there using performance enhancers in one way or another. This goes back many years, but if I go home at night and finish third, I know that one of the horses is enhanced. Some nights I go home and finish fourth or fifth and feel like every horse was enhanced. When I pick up the program, I don't look so much to see what horses I'm in against, I look to see what trainers I'm in against. I hate that. I hate being sour on the game. Unfortunately the cheaters are always ahead of the testers. We don't have the money, the will or the way to stop the cheaters. Some have tried. I give Jeff Gural credit for stepping out and spending his money to use different labs and things like that. How do you view the future of harness racing? I'm concerned. If I was 25 or 35, I'd be using my education to do something else. I don't regret a day doing what I'm doing. I love it every day and learn something every day. I'm concerned about the game. I think a lot of people are trying. The strategic money that Hanover Shoe Farms put up, it's a good start and they are well-intended. It's really not going to get anything done. There are too many scoundrels out there, there are too many eyeballs that need to be watched, and there are too many things that need to be done. I wish I knew the one single answer to solve it. Time for the stretch drive: Best Horse You Ever Saw: Muscle Hill. Pacers are a dime-a-dozen. There’s a great one every year. Best Driver Ever: It's a generational thing. To me you have to break it down into eras. If I had to pick one driver to drive my horse for one race, and I didn't care if it was a front-runner or whatever, I would take Brian Sears. I believe he is a great driver and he is a friend of mine, not that I'm not friends with all of the drivers. Lasix – Yes or No?: I'm a big believer in it. It helps to protect the horse. I don’t think trainers abuse Lasix and I don't think it is a masking agent, even though there are some guys that put horses on Lasix as soon as they get them regardless of whether they need it. I would prefer if we could use some adjunct medication, like Amicar for example. You can use it as Dover and some other tracks. Favorite TV Show?: Billions. Trotters or Pacers?: Pacers.